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Richard Coxon
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PostSubject: Force feedback   Mon 24 Dec 2012 - 1:43

Which is better?

Realfeel of Leo's FFB

i use a Thrustmaster F430 Wheel (Beloved G25 set on fire lol!)

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Guillaume Siebert
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Mon 24 Dec 2012 - 10:40

Depends on the mod I guess. I'm using Leo FFB only with the CART Factor mod, and RealFeel with Historic GT. Most of the time the standard FFB is fine for me.

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Samuli Leinonen
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Mon 24 Dec 2012 - 10:41

I think one cannot really say which one is 'better'. FFB is very much personal thing and it changes a lot from mod to mod. With some of them I think RealFeel is better and with some i'd say Leo's. Sometimes I use combination of both.



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Richard Coxon
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Mon 24 Dec 2012 - 11:11

Well if your not using it for all mods I think I'll make do with the standard FFB, Thanks for the advice. You can remove the post if you want now Gui. Very Happy

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Samuli Leinonen
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Mon 24 Dec 2012 - 13:27

FFB is something I never stop tweaking. When I first got to racing, right after when I was able to keep the car on track I started to look for better wheelfeel. Since wheel is the only physical way to get inputs from the game (apart from motion simulators :hum: ), for me it's the most important thing after my vision. I've been in a situation couple times where RF plugin has crashed during the race, leaving me no FFB at all, and couple turns later I've found my car against the barrier because I don't "feel" the car anymore.

There are many links and guides for better FFB in rfactor without using any plugins and I highly recommend you to test them before settling to the plain old isi's controlololler.ini. Simply just because the experience is much more realistic, thus at least for me, better. Biggest problem is the FFB code itself. It gives false inputs and is always laggy no matter what wheel you use. I know some drivers even on the very highest level of racing don't use FFB for this reason.

Majority of the mods in rfactor have awful tyre models. Slip angles are very steep and quite unrealistic, working more like on/off switch than a "real tyre". If your controller is not able to give you these inputs when you are on edge or close of your slip, the steering comes more of a guessing game. Meaning usually you tend to turn the wheel too much or too little and end up in a situation where you think the setup is understeery when in reality you're not using the front wheels like supposed.

I've been able to simulate this feel of slip in the best way with Leo's plugin. Realfeel comes close but has some properties I don't like and which are quite unrealistic.
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David Jundt
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Mon 24 Dec 2012 - 14:30

For HistoriX mod, I think it's still realfeel enabled, doesn't seem bad.

As for other mods, I added Leo's FFB to my Force Feedback in the respective controller file, thanks to William Levesque posting it on the forum at InsideSimRacing.

Sometimes, it works well, sometimes it rattles quite a lot. So I don't always use it.

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Samuli Leinonen
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Wed 26 Dec 2012 - 11:33

Good read by Leo Bodnar.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fleobodnar.com%2Ffiles%2FWhy%20Force%20Feedback%20In%20Computer%20Simulators%20Does%20Not%20Work.pdf
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Jens Kraft
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Fri 29 Nov 2013 - 13:16

Hello,

i have tried to find information on Force Feedback because my FFB

does NOT work:

I crash all the time, because when i drive through a corner it will not build up the proper loads and when i countersteer the wheel doesnt go easily to center but still against a resistance.

that means that the feeling is so contradictory to even normall FFB that i cant drive.

The link above is not working, i tried to find the document Samuli posted.


What i found out:
I am using the old, historical red MOMO Force by Logitech.

Using the software.
Have all the settings Gui and others posted here.

I am using RealFeel.

I tweaked some options and found in the Historic mod with the Prosche 914/6:

Decreasing FFB strength by pressing Ctrl 7(numberblock) increases the force. That is normal i think.
The Value started at 18500.
When i reached 200 then 100 the Torque on my wheel was quite double strong.

But the wheel was still very bad.

What also happened while driving and while STANDING: The wheel starts to vibrate/wobble strongly. This increases and u can hold it still. even if u hold it still with full hands on it will try to wobble.

When i decrease the damping by pressing Ctrl 4(numberblock) this wobble will decrease.
When i reached about a value of 115, like the value of force described above, the vibration will quite go away!
But then the FFB still feels very weird, so i still spin.

When i have the damping decreased buit increase the force (first one) the force/torque on my wheel will go away so far that there is quite no feeling. the wheel will even hang into the corner instead of pressing against it, but only sometimes.


The slider in Rfactor settings is correct at -80. when i use positive values the forces are into the wrong directions.
Remember that it only occurs with the wrong direction when i have tiny real feeel damping and a high torque value (=little force).


What setting can i use in real feel? There are more than damping and force (also max power, smoothing, etc...).
some recommend limit max power, but how would a general wrong damp/force FFB be ok my limiting the power peaks?
this is a solution they found working for themselves, but its only a interpretation.
what is the thing to do?


and the post above says a month and a day, but from which year is it? can we ask Samuli Leinonen?


Greetings

I want to race on 1st December in historic!


Last edited by Jens Kraft on Fri 29 Nov 2013 - 13:17; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Problem <---- Solution)
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Ben Paulet
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Fri 29 Nov 2013 - 13:38

Sorry, I don't use this bad artifice. I can't help you. :smil20: 
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Vincent Beretta
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Fri 29 Nov 2013 - 14:26

Jens Kraft wrote:
... crash all the time, because when i drive through a corner it will not build up the proper loads and when i countersteer the wheel doesnt go easily to center but still against a resistance.

that means that the feeling is so contradictory to even normall FFB that i cant drive.

Try Ctrl 8

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Jens Kraft
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Fri 29 Nov 2013 - 15:19

Hi

Thank you:

Well bad artifice:
With the normall FFB i only have some forces in the corner. it might be good for you that you also have NO FORCE when your rear steps out so that you feel the car. Like in a real kart.
But without that you never know if you are at the limit, you cannot see tinly slides on the screen until the car points more to the inside of the track and then it is because the rear tires are alreddy sliding and cooking






CTRL 8 is only for max / min value. so the force is very low or not there.


Anybody any suggestions?
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Jens Kraft
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Fri 29 Nov 2013 - 15:20

http://www.rfactorcentral.com/screenshots/lge/12-Jul-09-rFactorCentral-4808_ReelFeel.jpg

and yes, there is a lfet anda right CTRL button
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Ben Paulet
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Fri 29 Nov 2013 - 15:30

Jens Kraft wrote:
Hi

Thank you:

Well bad artifice:
With the normall FFB i only have some forces in the corner. it might be good for you that you also have NO FORCE when your rear steps out so that you feel the car. Like in a real kart.
But without that you never know if you are at the limit, you cannot see tinly slides on the screen until the car points more to the inside of the track and then it is because the rear tires are alreddy sliding and cooking
I know some drivers here without that, and they often in front of the race, and they know very well when the limits of the car are coming. For sure, they are good simdrivers too.
So bad artifice for me and for some people, but if you like it, good. :frank:
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Jens Kraft
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Fri 29 Nov 2013 - 15:36

Hi Ben,

well:
"bad artifice" was the RealFeel. You called it a bad artifice, taht you dont use it:

The problem ist, i like a bad artifice more than not an artifice: GPL (Grand Prix LEgends) has quite no FFB feature, but the Wheel feels so good, that i can race VERY WELL.
That means that in rFactor something is wrong and maybe somebody can help me to solve it: Even without RealFeel my FFB is wrong.
In GPL i took 3 years to find out how the damn shivering of the wheel goes away
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Fri 29 Nov 2013 - 15:54

Jens Kraft wrote:
when i countersteer the wheel doesnt go easily to center but still against a resistance.
I had the Momo (black that is, but still), with the force feedback entirely disabled. I still couldn't countersteer as easily as I do with the G25/G27, I had a resistance too.
Unless there was an option that I forgot to disable, it's probably that this wheel can't do better in this area :smil20: 

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Ben Paulet
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Fri 29 Nov 2013 - 16:01

Jens Kraft wrote:
Hi Ben,
well:
"bad artifice" was the RealFeel. You called it a bad artifice, taht you dont use it:
Listen, enough to read you especially when you don't know what I have tried or not.
Jens Kraft wrote:
That means that in rFactor something is wrong and maybe somebody can help me to solve it: Even without RealFeel my FFB is wrong.
In GPL i took 3 years to find out how the damn shivering of the wheel goes away
For sure, the FFB from rfactor is not the best that I've heard speak about. But I've often heard say about that the problem is in front of the wheel. :aie: 
And I hope you're a car engineer now, because lost 3 years to adjust a wheel is much. But everyone goes to his speed. And everyone see the simracing as he likes. :frank:
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Fri 29 Nov 2013 - 16:44

Jens Kraft wrote:
Hi



CTRL 8 is only for max / min value. so the force is very low or not there.

Maybe you should read what you need to read about realfeel before asking questions.

qqs explications en francais.

Once more, try Ctrl 8.

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Jens Kraft
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Fri 29 Nov 2013 - 23:00

Vincent Beretta wrote:
Jens Kraft wrote:
Hi



CTRL 8 is only for max / min value. so the force is very low or not there.

Maybe you should read what you need to read about realfeel before asking questions.

qqs explications en francais.

Once more, try Ctrl 8.


That is where i had my information from. i will try RIGHT ctrl this time

:D :D
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Fri 29 Nov 2013 - 23:06

Another thing to do to have correct ffb settings is go on your profile settings on the HSO forum --> avatar --> Upload an Avatar from your computer :D Not sure it works but it's worth trying mesays :langue: 

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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Fri 29 Nov 2013 - 23:34

Be careful. You know what you have, you don't know what you can get scratch 

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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Fri 29 Nov 2013 - 23:40

Frank Verplanken wrote:
Another thing to do to have correct ffb settings is go on your profile settings on the HSO forum --> avatar --> Upload an Avatar from your computer :D Not sure it works but it's worth trying mesays :langue: 
JP Campmajo wrote:
Be careful. You know what you have, you don't know what you can get scratch
I Strongly Agree

So I took the Liberty of Making You A New One lol! 


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Richard Coxon
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Sat 30 Nov 2013 - 2:51

He'll be winning profile pic of the year with that one! lol! 

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Jens Kraft
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PostSubject: Re: Force feedback   Sat 30 Nov 2013 - 11:59

Finish a race:

Impossibruuu!

i have to laugh hard when i remembered that this guy got an answer on a gameshow wrong and was out. i cant stand it, who has so much muscles in his face. normally we barely can see asiatic expression but this is more korea or so than vietnam thailand

i did a new one before i saw the pic with the car http://i.computer-bild.de/imgs/4/3/7/3/9/0/2/Impossibru-745x559-bc9d347e9a972770.jpg
but i will first try another one.

i will try one that fits my carefulness and race pace because of my fragible FORCE FEEDBACK
http://www.shipulski.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Impossible.jpeg


back on Topic, changing Values has a huge impact and the flickering goes away, also some of the FFB effects. i think ill have to xtrapolate what effect is what

any more suggestions?
anybody has heard of the Finn? or any contact with him so maybe in his read there is info on the FFB parameters in the realfeel ini
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