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Alberto Ibaņez
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Fri 27 Apr 2012 - 11:23

I absolutely lack the driving level to be able to give clues to improve anyone's performance, but there are some general useful tips I can share

One I learned well while driving at ovals, is that when you choose your reference points for braking, turning-in, etc, you shall NOT, NEVER, BY ANY MEANS choose them on the tarmac -or at least on the tarmac only.

It is for example sooooo tempting to use the "darker" rubber marks before the corners as braking reference when you are training alone in the track Rolling Eyes ... but the problem is that when you race with other cars, that is exactly the part of the track that you won't be able to see! And then, the risk of missing those reference points is huge, which will make you slower in race than you were in training, and most probably cause you to sooner or later ...
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David Cid
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Tue 29 May 2012 - 12:00

Ok guys I have a question of most importance... I know its been discussed here, but I can't seem to understand:
How the hell do I realy put some weight/ temperature on my inside front tire?
This is more crictical with the commodore on the Aussies tracks :frank:
I'm drving nuts with this, please help :urgence:

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Alberto Ibaņez
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Tue 29 May 2012 - 12:56

In tracks very biased to only turn to one side, like Amaroo (Most turns to right), your best bet would be an assymetrical setup. However, there is a limit to what you can do, and it is dictated by straight line braking ability: Too much biased to one side, and braking will be very unstable, losing anything you gained (Or even crashing).

Basically, you need harder springs on the left to reject weight transferred from the right, and also hard rebound settings on the right to stop the weigth transferring so quick at corner entrance (That will heat a bit more the front right) plus different camber settings right and left. You can also try different caster settings left and right, but that will not affect temperature -it will however make the car turn easier.

In real life you could also play with assymetrical toe, but rfactor won't let you do that and it is also quite unstabilizating. It would however heat the right tires much better.

In any case, think also that if the tire is not much heated, then it is because it is working little, so you won't gain much loading (And thus heating) it. drunken
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David Cid
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Tue 29 May 2012 - 13:02

Gracias Alberto cheers
I will try it again today, having in mind what you say. study
I feel that If I don't use assimetric setup I have huge difference in front tires temps. So I'm afraid that ruins my race again :aie:

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Guillaume Siebert
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Tue 29 May 2012 - 13:02

Hmm here's a shorter answer : more front camber. What a Face

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David Cid
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Tue 29 May 2012 - 13:03

Hey Gui... more positve or negative camber? and in which wheel? study scratch

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Guillaume Siebert
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Tue 29 May 2012 - 13:07

More negative camber on the tire which doesn't have enough inside temperature. Wink

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David Cid
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Tue 29 May 2012 - 13:08

scratch in fact the inside front doesn't have enough temperature anywere... :doh: but the outside is so hot...

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Guillaume Siebert
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Tue 29 May 2012 - 13:12

Then do it on both tires ^^

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David Cid
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Tue 29 May 2012 - 13:25

Ok... I can't wait to try these stuff.
I hope I can get a decent setup for this car this time :hihi:
Tks Guys :hello:

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Alberto Ibaņez
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Tue 29 May 2012 - 17:02

Quote :
More negative camber on the tire which doesn't have enough inside temperature.

Negative camber helps countering the positive camber the tire gains while being lifted (right suspension goes into rebound mode), but ideally you need the tire to stay on the ground study You need to have the car not roll much, and also transfer less weigth ---> that will keep load in the inside tire and heat it up. Stiffer antirollbars and more rebound in the right should help with that.
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David Cid
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Wed 30 May 2012 - 20:15

Ok, with all your tips I can get 85ēC in my front inside tire.
The problem is that I have my front outside at 135ēC!

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Alberto Ibaņez
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Wed 30 May 2012 - 20:23

Once you have the best setup possible, you can't do anything else but go slower and try to adapt your driving style as much as you can. In fact, if you drive agressively you will get lots of heat always in all tracks, it's just that here with so many turns to one side it becomes very evident because it's always the same tire which takes the beating. But from the two things that will overheat your front tires (Entering agressively the turns and exiting under full gas with understeer), the first one is what will put more heat into them. You need therefore to drive like in an oval, brake earlier and move your accelerating point (Not your apex) also earlier. Also, do all the braking as straight as possible and not into the corner, and then rotate the car quicker to point to the exit and shoot out instead of having a longer central phase of the turn ---> that one will put the more stress in the tire after an agressive entry.
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David Cid
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Wed 30 May 2012 - 22:50

Suspect ... that way I'm gonna be laped again by lower class series

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Steve Parker
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Wed 30 May 2012 - 23:26

Try and keep the tyre 8c difference from outside temperature of tire to the inside with middle of tire in between those temps,
for example 100-96-92 adjust pressure and camber till you get it right

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David Cid
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Wed 30 May 2012 - 23:47

ok Steve I'll try that too. I thought it should be less of a difference :aie: anyway I should have more then that at the outside front by now :hihi:

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Guillaume Siebert
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Thu 31 May 2012 - 8:09

David Cid wrote:
Suspect ... that way I'm gonna be laped again by lower class series

Its not really a lower class, they are less powerful but also much lighter and agile, that makes them as fast (if not faster) than the big cars on the twisty australian tracks. Wink

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David Cid
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Thu 31 May 2012 - 10:55

Your'e right Gui, A fine BMW or Merc can not be considered a lower class series compared to my Commodore thing...

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Jukka Maattanen
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Thu 31 May 2012 - 15:13

Alberto Ibaņez wrote:
In real life you could also play with assymetrical toe, but rfactor won't let you do that and it is also quite unstabilizating. It would however heat the right tires much better.
What would one use this for?
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Alberto Ibaņez
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Thu 31 May 2012 - 15:35

Heat one of the front tires more than the other, and increase slightly Ackerman steering. When you go in straight line one tire points forward but the other is slightly turned, so it drags a bit and generates more heat. When you arrive at corner entry and start steering that tire will also point more to the inside of the turn.
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Jukka Maattanen
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Thu 31 May 2012 - 15:57

But if one of the tires is not straight on a straight, surely the car wouldn't go straight scratch Is asymmetrical toe used in combination with camber or caster stagger then? scratch
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Alberto Ibaņez
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PostSubject: Re: Coaching   Thu 31 May 2012 - 16:34

Yes it's an oval racing trick. Used mainly on short tracks though, as indeed the car will push to one side (heavily or not depends on how much you put in) and be more unstable, which would be wild on higher speeds.

I quote this for example:

Quote :
With all of toe's benefits, it would be a good thing if there was a
way to get the inside tire's slip angle up quickly, but not have the
outside tire pointed so far in the wrong direction. This is totally
doable with an asymmetric toe setup - if all the turns go the same
direction.

This is unlikely to happen unless you go oval racing.


http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets22.html
And yes, driving with asymmetrical setups implies always having to do steering effort to keep the car going straight.
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