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 IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]

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Alberto Ibañez
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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Sun 26 Nov 2017 - 23:49

Quote :
Nice mod but the tyres are shit!

Tire wear is per the original mod, though you likely killed them because you were going very fast on full tank. I did 15 lap stints offline on a set of tires with no trouble, and so did Richard while testing the cars. In real life they had to nurse them or they dropped like a stone after some laps - and the Mercedes was known to be specially hard on the rears.

The Pirellis on the Alfas, though, are obviously too good. But then again, the whole mod is WIP and races like this are the real test bed. Smile

I'm not sure if and when we will race this mod again - but one option I am toying with is doing the physics of the other available cars (ERA and Bugatti) for a voiturettes race. The GP cars seem really too hard for the majority of us.

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Jukka Maattanen
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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Sun 26 Nov 2017 - 23:57

Yes, I remember the discussion we had about tyre wear, including the bit of info about Stuck pitting seven times in a 40-lap race :D
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Jason Whited
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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Sun 26 Nov 2017 - 23:58

I want to note a weird thing that happened to me (since I'm cooling down a bit)

After my stop, after a few laps on the new tires and full tank, my car suddenly had more top speed and a noted increase in lap times can be seen...like, sometimes 2 seconds noticeable. I had about 15mph more top speed for no reason I can explain.
I was driving a bit harder, and did find that I could go faster in places than initially thought (or was just being cautious and not pushing) but even in practice for two weeks, I never went over 2:32. In race, I think I went 2:30 at one point after the stop.

Any possible explanations for this?

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Alberto Ibañez
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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Mon 27 Nov 2017 - 0:01

Looks to me more like a faulty control on your side. It sometimes has happened to me that the brake pedal was silghtly enabled when I used a small or no dead-zone. This slowed the car and changed the behaviour but only in a subtle way - Then in one of the pedal smashing movements the deadzone dissapears/recalibrates and suddenly you are quicker. Check your controls screen in rfactor, if you see the brake pedal flashing slightly by default or after pressing/releasing it, you might need to recalibrate, add dead zone or replace your potentiometers.

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Jason Whited
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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Mon 27 Nov 2017 - 0:08

Doubtful, but possible....but this is something I check constantly (like, obsessively) and I've never once had that issue.  I also don't use deadzones.

In the forest sector, if you wish, watch my speed through there when I was at about 2:34 pace, and then later in the race in those times I was pushing 2:30 and 2:31.  I was able to comfortably go through there at at least 10mph faster...actually, with more control than initially.

Just something I noted..and perhaps it was heat in the engine?  I've noticed in some mods that if I push the heats a bit I can get more top end from them (to a point, then that drops off and hp is reduced because of heat).  

It felt sort of like when one is in a high downforce car, and you lose the front wing and then the car is faster (minus the inability to turn..like I said, no damage and I wasn't having those kind of issues)

ETA:  It is possible it was just me, and even in practice I didn't realize just how much I could push through those sectors.  On throttle the car is far more stable and grip being on acceleration, maybe I just wasn't pushing and then I was.  That is possible.  I just wanted to note it because I found it a bit strange and generally my laps times fall off rather than increase because of fatigue and pain (back issues that bug me sometimes)...that's pretty standard, so this stuck out for me.

ETA (one more time...lol) I checked and I'm not seeing anything abnormal with pedal readouts in game or in my profiler. These pedals are also fairly new (about 6 months) and I clean them weekly. TP3A pro pedals. So, I'd say that I'm nearly positive it wasn't that.

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Alberto Ibañez
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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Mon 27 Nov 2017 - 0:12

Quote :
It is possible it was just me, and even in practice I didn't realize just how much I could push through those sectors. On throttle the car is far more stable and grip being on acceleration, maybe I just wasn't pushing and then I was. That is possible. I just wanted to note it because I found it a bit strange and generally my laps times fall off rather than increase because of fatigue and pain (back issues that bug me sometimes)...that's pretty standard, so this stuck out for me.

Yes, that could be aswell. In this track pushing more in the fast section makes a huge difference.

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Jason Whited
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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Mon 27 Nov 2017 - 0:15

Alberto Ibañez wrote:
Yes, that could be aswell. In this track pushing more in the fast section makes a huge difference.

Indeed...and the faster you go, the faster you can realize you can go there.  
But, still doesn't explain the increase in speed on the main straight that was very evident.
It wasn't huge, but was certainly enough that I noticed it right away and I know for certain I wasn't building more speed there because it was 30-35mph for me through the final turn every single lap of the race.  I knew from practice not to push that area and bit the dust there more than a few times before I learned that lesson....lol

Anyways...enough from me. Just wanted to note that.

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Alberto Ibañez
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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Mon 27 Nov 2017 - 0:21

The voiturettes have little power and it might happen that, depending on the gear you are using (A long one spcially), a better lap from you managing a quicker exit from a certain turn allows the engine to reach a zone of the torque curve that pushes it those extra MPH.

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Jason Whited
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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Mon 27 Nov 2017 - 0:23

Alberto Ibañez wrote:
The voiturettes have little power and it might happen that, depending on the gear you are using (A long one spcially), a better lap from you managing a quicker exit from a certain turn allows the engine to reach a zone of the torque curve that pushes it those extra MPH.

That certainly sounds like a bit better explanation and very possible.
Could have been, on the main straight, I was managing that cobblestone area a bit better as I was having some trouble initially putting the power down (lead foot) and later was nursing it a bit to preserve the tires.

Makes the most sense thus far.  :top:

Was running longest gear available.

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Steve Parker
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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Mon 27 Nov 2017 - 0:35

Alberto Ibañez wrote:
Quote :
Nice mod but the tyres are shit!

Tire wear is per the original mod, though you likely killed them because you were going very fast on full tank. I did 15 lap stints offline on a set of tires with no trouble, and so did Richard while testing the cars. In real life they had to nurse them or they dropped like a stone after some laps - and the Mercedes was known to be specially hard on the rears.

The Pirellis on the Alfas, though, are obviously too good. But then again, the whole mod is WIP and races like this are the real test bed. Smile

I'm not sure if and when we will race this mod again - but one option I am toying with is doing the physics of the other available cars (ERA and Bugatti) for a voiturettes race. The GP cars seem really too hard for the majority of us.

i managed 27 laps on first stint in au.and tires were fine,so just one stop for me,just paced myself and looked after the tires,and the GP Cars were good fun Alberto nice job on the physics :clap:

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David Jaques
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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Mon 27 Nov 2017 - 0:58

phew what a race, just finally getting my death grip off the wheel. my race was mostly trying to pace myself despite jundt who was running really quick laps. had some good close battles, but the biggest challenge of the race was keeping focus for the entire time. only takes a moment and these cars can easily get away.

grats to steve, great win. bruno, gets the prize for most sensible, i believe didnt set a qual time, started at the back, kept it rolling and finished on the podium!

best,
dave

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Bruno Chacon
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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Mon 27 Nov 2017 - 1:06


I only regret not having forced a little more at the start of the race.
I just made a stop and kept a pace between 36 and 40 for almost every lap after lap 5. I tried to chase David, but he had more than 50 seconds advantage that at one point, reached 40 seconds but ... I preferred to guarantee the result.
I was also very cautious in taking advantage of the leaders' advantage, this was very damaging to my pace of laps.
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Jason White
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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Mon 27 Nov 2017 - 3:02

Many Congratulations --

To Steve on winning the race,
To David on repeating and Gold Star champion,
and to Bruno on his first HSO podium!

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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Mon 27 Nov 2017 - 4:22


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Jason Whited
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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Mon 27 Nov 2017 - 4:28

Very cool shots!

:clap:

Wow..missed the 80% rule by 3 freakin' laps. Just about the luck I had today.
Blah!

Evil or Very Mad

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Yves Plaçais
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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Mon 27 Nov 2017 - 9:00

Alberto Ibañez wrote:
The GP cars seem really too hard for the majority of us.

C'est peut-être aussi le circuit qui était trop piégeux pour une première sur ce mod.

Bravo Steve, :clap:
bravo David,
bravo Bruno ! :top:

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Alberto Ibañez
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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Mon 27 Nov 2017 - 9:15

Congratulations Bruno, doing podium with these cars is something very special. Good job!

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Jacob Fredriksson
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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Mon 27 Nov 2017 - 10:03

Alberto Ibañez wrote:
I'm not sure if and when we will race this mod again - but one option I am toying with is doing the physics of the other available cars (ERA and Bugatti) for a voiturettes race. The GP cars seem really too hard for the majority of us.

A perfect storm of hardship: the most brutal racing cars in history, we are new to them, and a very difficult track - I think this combination caused the attrition rate. I think maybe a Tripoli GP would be kinder to us.

But yes, I am really looking forward to trying a voiturette! And looking at the entry list for the 1937 Campbell Trophy at the Brooklands road course, we have a pretty decent grid for it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1937_Campbell_Trophy

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Bruno Chacon
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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Mon 27 Nov 2017 - 10:44

Alberto Ibañez wrote:
Congratulations Bruno, doing podium with these cars is something very special. Good job!

Thanks Alberto
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Alberto Ibañez
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PostSubject: Re: IV. Grosser Preis der Schweiz [Nov 26th]   Mon 27 Nov 2017 - 10:52

Quote :
the most brutal racing cars in history

There was a point when the power really went crazy and the cars became exponentially harder to drive, somewhere past the 400 HP mark. The Alfa, as we have seen, is still quite driveable, but the 500+ HP beasts require a concentration and restraint that only a few achieve. In the original mod the cars not only had historically inaccurate suspensions (The AU had a solid rear axle Rolling Eyes ) but also less power than in real life, in benefit of driveability. Thus the aero drag was decreased to allow them to reach the correct speeds Rolling Eyes

Another thing that makes things quite hard is the ZF type locking differential, which was introduced in the 1935 season (First in the AU, then in the Mercedes). Before it, the excess power just went up in smoke from the inside wheel with the car remaining stable, but after implementing the differential you got marked power oversteer and needed lots of extra finesse.

The voiturettes lacked differential in real life (Must remove it from the Maserati BTW) and those you see nowadays in historic racing had it retro-fitted later. But with their much lower power figure they did not really need it much.


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