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 Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]

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Jason White
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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Sun 6 Aug - 19:45

People are not using their mirrors.  Evil or Very Mad

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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Sun 6 Aug - 20:02


What a waste of time and effort,rear ended under yellow again,then just as we were about to go green the 2 cars in front of me collided as i avoided them,i got a stop n go penalty for passing before green,then DQ for ignoring the stop n go.last oval race for me.

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Yves Plaçais
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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Sun 6 Aug - 20:19

crash devant affraid , impossible de passer Crying or Very sad , voiture détruite :aie: .

Dommage, j'étais prudent, ça marchait bien...

Comme Steve, j'ai envie de dire, dernier ovale pour moi.
A chaque fois, je me dis, ça va bien se passer, mais non, ça ne se passe jamais bien.

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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Sun 6 Aug - 20:24

Parked it. I'm just not in the right frame of mind to stay invested in the five hour slog this was developing into. :smil20:

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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Sun 6 Aug - 20:31

I guess I just don't enjoy this anymore. Sorry.
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Mike Becnel
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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Sun 6 Aug - 20:32

Steve Parker wrote:

What a waste of time and effort,rear ended under yellow again,then just as we were about to go green the 2 cars in front of me collided as i avoided them,i got a stop n go penalty for passing before green,then DQ for ignoring the stop n go.last oval race for me.

I had a flat tire and you were drifting up the track as I was going by to take my place in line ahead of you. LF was flat so I could not brake fast enough or turn away. Really borked my car also.

Was being polite and letting fast cars by at restart around lap 80 and got aero washed into the wall. When I hit it I flipped and stayed on my roof. Race over. REALLY hate the aero draft physics of this mod. That has to be overhauled or I see no sane person running this a full season if it happens. And full length races with yellows in this mod is asking too much for Euro drivers. Real life is more important.

Dana Schurer wrote:
Parked it. I'm just not in the right frame of mind to stay invested in the five hour slog this was developing into. :smil20:

Watching you and David Jaques race early was superb. And you passed me like I was standing still after first restart. Nice driving. Sorry you could not finish - I calculated the estimated finish also and was not at all unhappy to crash out on my head.

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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Sun 6 Aug - 20:56

Apologize to everyone for causing any problems. I prepared really bad setup for the race. In driving alone ok. The car was balanced well. Maybe on the edge of oversteer but alone i raced without problems. Driving in the pack was really hell. The car was chronicle oversteer and unstable in corner entry, exit, in the middle so almost everywhere. Especially apologize to Mick for my contact from the back. I had to solve also spin of my back. It was luck that we both survived. But thanks HSO to prepare this kind of the race. These cars are really beasts.

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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Sun 6 Aug - 21:02

I don't know where this full season talk has come from, but I can say now there is 0.00001% chance we will do these for a full season.

A, not all tracks exist.
B, not enough weekends in the year, remember we have a summer break
And C, as Mike mentioned, such race lengths every weekend would kill the Europeans.

HSO has other plans Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Sun 6 Aug - 21:06

Richard Coxon wrote:
I don't know where this full season talk has come from, but I can say now there is 0.00001% chance we will do these for a full season.

A, not all tracks exist.
B, not enough weekends in the year, remember we have a summer break
And C, as Mike mentioned, such race lengths every weekend would kill the Europeans.

HSO has other plans  Smile

+1

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Mike Becnel
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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Sun 6 Aug - 21:07

Richard Coxon wrote:
I don't know where this full season talk has come from, but I can say now there is 0.00001% chance we will do these for a full season.

A, not all tracks exist.
B, not enough weekends in the year, remember we have a summer break
And C, as Mike mentioned, such race lengths every weekend would kill the Europeans.

HSO has other plans  Smile

Good, bury this one in the litter pan lol!


Edit:

Race is almost over - hats off to all the finishers and big thanks to the announcers for the marathon gig!

I assume Jaques has it, great job sir! Jundt may have had more for you had he not gotten a Becnel bumper tattoo earlier.

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Bruno Chacon
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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Sun 6 Aug - 23:41

Mr. Holada was angry with me. He hit me at the rear on a yellow flag and 2 times in reverse in the pits.
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Mick Chapman
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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Sun 6 Aug - 23:58

Martin......no probs.........had I checked my mirrors, I would have sen toy coming.......

Yves, sorry for crowding you(pinning you to the apron)....same, mirrors.

And a couple more sketchy moments, whom I don't remember who was involved.....I'll have to check replay mid week when I get back......

I did enjoy it very much.....despite yellows and my stubbornness/arrogance on trying to regain positions lost.

Grats Dave Dave Juha "last lap opportunist #2" Bos

thx admin

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Juha Bos
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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Sun 6 Aug - 23:59

Richard Coxon wrote:
I don't know where this full season talk has come from, but I can say now there is 0.00001% chance we will do these for a full season.

Still too much for my liking. :D

I qualified near the front of the grid which was a new experience for me on an oval. Early on I couldn't avoid a wreck but luckily I got away with just a puncture. I climbed back from 20th to 4th, 3rd, 2nd, and even held the lead for one lap, but the Davids were in another league. Mick was too quick for me as well but I caught his draft on the final lap and took third place in the final turn.

It was a very long long night but I thoroughly enjoyed it thanks to the other races in the TS booth.

My apologies to Bob Holada for nudging him under yellow, couldn't get it stopped in time.

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Juha Bos
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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Mon 7 Aug - 0:02

Mick Chapman wrote:
Grats Dave Dave Juha "last lap opportunist #2" Bos

The last lap was like a bad kitchen cabinet; close one door and another one opens. lol!

Thanks for the cooperation this week. You deserved it more than I did but I couldn't let it slip away.

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Mike Becnel
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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Mon 7 Aug - 0:09

Sucks to be in the spotlight for the big one. David appears to have laid way off as did I (listen to my engine - I was off even before he was). Tried to go high but closing speed was too high. Contact with him was pretty light. Damage was done in pinball game afterwards. I think my collecting Yves was the one that hurt. Car drove fine but was broken too much for aero.

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David Jundt
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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Mon 7 Aug - 0:16

This could've ended a lot different for me than it did.

Started with 62% engine life, ended it on 19%. Jukka's set was cool, but my re-adjusting of gears ended with the 4th gear reving up to 7'500, which was 500 too high and caused higher fuel consumption aswell. Those yellows were actually a heaven sent in hinsight. Otherwise I might have blown the engine before the end.

Sorry to Jason Whited, I wanted to draft together thus went to the left to stay ahead which sadly resulted on you spinning after touching my rear. Not what I had intended Sad

I also hit the rear-quarter of David Sabre's car trying to move to the left to pass out of T2 :doh:


Otherwise, I didn't really bother with the first half of the race, I just wanted to survive.

2nd is rather lucky I'd say... Michigan seems to be a good place for me though.

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Scott Urick
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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Mon 7 Aug - 6:38

Congratulations to D'Jacques on the win! Also to all of the finishers who slogged it out for over four hours!

I came to the same conclusion as Dana on Thursday night. I don't know about the other cars, but I was trying build differing levels of wedge into the car (beyond the two-turn range that could be spec'd on the general setup page) when I noticed that whenever RR or LF ride height was adjusted, the RF ride height adjusted the same amount automatically. And, trust me, "symmetrical setup" was turned off.

That's when I realized (after 1,500 miles of testing, DUH) that whoever developed this mod was intentionally and ARTIFICIALLY degrading the performance of these cars in some mis-guided belief that they should handle like some Cadillac of that era. And without a rudimentary knowledge of programming physics, they merely resorted to jury-rigging adjustments in the setup to force poor handling. (I wept in gratitude that we have Richard Wilks engineering the cars in HSO mods.)

Just for a giggle, I flipped everything on my setup (that was allowed) to something that would facilitate right turns and went out to test. And within two laps, I matched my fastest time. Then I withdrew. Disgusted.

Maybe I'm just spoiled with the quality of HSO mods. But this particular mod was as close to a racing simulation as Farm Simulator. And with quality of HSO drivers, the number of yellows proves how diabolically these car performed and how ill-conceived this mod is. And if the developers believe these cars accurately reflect how poorly a race-product the actual owners and crews of NASCAR Grand National Series racing really produced, they may as well spit in their faces (then try to survive long enough to get out of the infield)!

And for the drivers who have stated here that are swearing off oval racing for the future: I beg you PLEASE do not do it on account of these cars or the incident(s) of which you may have been a victim! It is a very different discipline, but no less, demanding, intense, or heart-pounding than any other motorsport. Unfortunately, you have just experienced how bad an oval mod can be.

Finally, hats off to Jonaton and Jason for their broadcasting efforts! I'm grateful Jason was there to help. I tuned in several times to check the progress, but never failed to find the race under yellow. Then a restart and another yellow on the next lap. So, knowing how difficult banter can be after a time, and Jason being more erudite with historical anecdotes, I didn't want to interfere.
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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Mon 7 Aug - 11:42

David Jundt wrote:
I also hit the rear-quarter of David Sabre's car trying to move to the left to pass out of T2 :doh:
I also did the same to Jason Whited on a re-start. :doh:  Sorry Jason.

A tough race and my car never handled well even at the start it didn't want to go in a straight line. pale  In the second half of the race I had a lot of damage and to run close behind another car was almost impossible. I raced a bit with Jason Whited towards the end of the race but every time I got close to him my car was all over the road. I just stayed on the lead lap and finished 6th.
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Raul Jereb
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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Mon 7 Aug - 11:57

Boy, I see a lot of stuff happend yesterday night..

So, first, I wish to appologise for not showing on the track. It was beyond my possibilyties, I did my best, but the situation I was in was rather unpleasent and I just couldnt cancel what was going on.
If there is any comfort for me (and oyu), there was so heavy storm at my area, I lost the power arround 22:30, and I was without it for allmost 20mins, so, Id be out of the race in any case..

Which is all in all too bad. I read what mr. Urick wrote, and I found there a peace of satisfaction for not being able to understand the logic of this mod. I made a good setup (guied by the common sense and experience I have from 73, 88 and 96 carts we drove on ovals), and I stuck the moment I was unable to notice some difference in car handling and lap-times with some major setup adjusments. Insecure in setups and my knowlede and understanding of that, I lost myself momentarly in confusion..

Great master Juha helped me, I in a way, I was back on my original setup, but with better laptime, even though, I couldnt figure out why, since the setups were really alike.. However, I continued with his setup, and finaly came where I was at the beggining.. Pretty good lap time, and a lot of drift in turns, but very controlable..
Its shame I was not able to try it out in race.. but reading all of this posts I have a feeling I wouldnt last too long..

I would like to try more Nascar mods, I dont know which are good ones, but it would be an interesting championship. And while on this topic, what is the rule for the "historic" category, how historical has to be a mod/year to be appropriate for our leagues..

thank you all, I had great time even practecing Smile

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Bob Holada
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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Mon 7 Aug - 12:14

Bruno Chacon wrote:
Mr. Holada was angry with me. He hit me at the rear on a yellow flag and 2 times in reverse in the pits.

NO Bruno. I was never angry with you. The rear end collision happened because I was distracted by a slow car near the guard rail. My fault. The collisions in the pits was from not being able to stop the car with the brakes.
I would slow down the car to a crawl before my pit box but no matter how slow I seemed to be I would just glide through my pit box. Put it into reverse and try to carefully backup a little but the car wouldn't stop until it hit something. I owe you a thank you for being there. During a round of pit stops before I exited I delayed my pit stop by one lap because I saw that you had turned in for your pit stop. I'm not sure who helped me during that stop.

Congratulations on Finishing

Bob Holada
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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Mon 7 Aug - 12:25

Raul Jereb wrote:
Great master Juha helped me, I in a way, I was back on my original setup, but with better laptime, even though, I couldnt figure out why, since the setups were really alike.. However, I continued with his setup, and finaly came where I was at the beggining..  Pretty good lap time, and a lot of drift in turns, but very controlable..

Thank you Raul, but depending on which setup I gave you (I can't remember which one it was but I can tell by the weight balance) the credit should probably go to either Gerard Ryon, Mick Chapman or David Jaques. They made the setups I used.

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Jason Whited
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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Mon 7 Aug - 12:52

A friend of mine used to have this truck on his farm that was seemingly going to run forever...just one hangup, the thing had no brakes and he wasn't about to sink a single dollar he didn't have to into that old truck....so, he'd just find the nearest tree or rock or hillside and run into it to stop the truck. Needless to say, that truck was beat all to hell (understatement).

My car resembled that truck after this race :aie:
So, I'll just start there. Jundt, there is no need to apologize for me spinning behind you like I did. It was good to hear that you did indeed move left a bit though. I thought I was losing the touch. I really had no intention on passing you. I was hoping to stay in your draft, work together a bit and maybe work closer to the front that way, but I was overrunning you severely in the draft and it was becoming really uncomfortable trying to hold the car in line in the draft (the aero wash is a bit over exaggerated in this mod, I think...lol)....ended up getting a really good run out of 2 and decided to go on around you, even if I did have to give the spot back right up the road. I probably could have created a bit more space and saved the trouble of the spin, but I didn't and your move left sealed that deal (no worries)...I am not even sure I made contact with your rear, just lost the front of the car in the dirty air and around she went. Spun around a few times and hit the wall.....besides a stop for a few short repairs nothing major. I was right back where I was only laps later.

I also took 2 or 3 good licks to the car when someone ahead of me spun. I had nowhere to go, car directly in the middle of the turn. Hit him, then was hit from behind, hit the wall, back into the center of the track where I was promptly T boned by a car that couldn't avoid. Major damage that time around, right front puncture to top it off. Didn't take long in the pits though, and besides the power loss (which was killing me towards the very end of the race) that was probably more to do with all the drag on the car than anything else (body was all to hell) the car was ok, no major handling issues.

It was my own mistakes that kept me out of the top 5 though, even with all that and more. It'll only ever be the "maybes" now. I MAY have been able to hold down a top 5 spot till the end. I MAY have been able to do this, or that...I'll never know. I screwed that up.
First it was an accidental 4 tire stop while running P4 that sent me back to P8 or 9...after finding my back in the top 5 again I really screwed it up and sealed the deal with a boneheaded move when the yellow came out.

The pits opened immediately and in my somewhat getting fatigued state I hurried into the pits before circling around to catch the field. In the pits, I overshot the pit stall and it took me a bit of time to get reversed and situated for service. On exiting the pits the field had already made it around and I didn't make it out before the pace car came by. So, that put me tail end of the lead lap and saw the top 3 lap me. Guys I was literally JUST racing with are now a full lap ahead of me :grrr: Rage

......pathetic mistake and dumb as they come. Felt like an idiot (still do) for that. I keep wondering what my car could have done on one of those final restarts...

But, live and learn....pay more attention...don't get so tired...blah blah....lessons learned.
Surviving this slog and surviving it top 10 was quite the refreshing change for me on the ovals here at HSO...so, happy about that, disappointed in my own mistakes. Lots of improvements to make, but overall, I'll take it.

...........
Also, David Sabre, thanks for mentioning that shot in the rear. I nearly forgot about that incident. Figured you just got a really nice run on the restart and botched it a bit but now I see you were having major handling issues (saw a lot of that watching the stream last night too)...no big deal for me. I half spun, hit the outside wall and snapped right back in line. It did bring about another yellow, but it must have been for debris because I never even really slowed when you made contact.
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David Jaques
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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Mon 7 Aug - 16:34

That was a long race, congrats to all finishers! Thanks to Mick for working together with the setup, Mopar family teamwork Razz it certainly took a while to get it dialed in, feelings from the car were subtle, certainly had to work at it to get all the performance out.


-Setups-
i have no idea how "well done" this mod is in terms of physics, i never looked at the files. i found most/all of the adjustments worked in the right direction to adjust balance, some were more sensitive than others, but they generally worked. the ride heights being tied together is common in rfactor oval mods i believe, think i've seen it before. i believe the purpose is to limit ride height, front to rear, and left to right, no dark intentions there ;P scott, or anyone else, let me know what you found in particular and maybe we can work it out. im always up for learning something and passing something along if i can.


-Restarts-
what the freaking heck? maybe i'm missing something, so hopefully we can all discuss and work together to make the restarts better in the future.

my understanding (using this race as the example), normal pace speed 60mph, on the back straight pace car accelerates and pulls low, leader is now the pacesetter, and slowly accelerates to an "increased pace speed", then hold that speed get lined up (no more than 2 car length space), everyone the same speed so no "big runs", then go on green. if i have it wrong please correct me, i want to be clear.

several times the leader accelerated hard and early, then slowed on the front stretch. this needs to be discussed, and just can't be done, its a recipe for disaster. once the leader goes full out they can't then slow when everyone behind is expecting to go, the accordion effect is huge and completely unnecessary.

maybe it was from the leader slowing after accelerating, but on several occasions, it seemed people were really "jumping" the start and getting big runs of speed at the cars ahead. if people in this league are so aggressive that they do this intentionally then i ask why? why is it ok to "race" like this? why not restart and race on the track, why do you need to use a restart to make a pass? we all took, well in this case, half a day out of our lives to sit down and RACE, why take advantage of a situation and pass where no skill was required? please dont get me wrong, some of the restarts were messy and awkward, and its not everybody, but there were a consistent few that just took advantage every time, and i just ask why?


-Cautions-
i haven't watched the replay yet so don't know, but was it aggressive driving/moves or was it the cars/setups not behaving? lack of practice, only the person behind the wheel can fix, but if you are struggling with the car there are many out here willing to help. especially if its a "keeping the car on the track" issue, lets fix that together before race time. these cars seemed to really behave differently at the start of a run to the end, only way to find that out is to test a whole fuel run. hopefully everyone that reserved a car KNEW that they would have to prepare at LEAST that much before a 500 mile race.


-Conclusion-
please don't take any of this the wrong way, i'm not trying to put anyone down, just want to get the RACING better and believe discussing it is the best way.

dave

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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Mon 7 Aug - 17:52



Kinda made me think of this...


Mike Becnel wrote:
Sucks to be in the spotlight for the big one. David appears to have laid way off as did I (listen to my engine - I was off even before he was). Tried to go high but closing speed was too high. Contact with him was pretty light. Damage was done in pinball game afterwards. I think my collecting Yves was the one that hurt. Car drove fine but was broken too much for aero.

I didn't even see it coming, out of nowhere I was sideways, trying to evade other cars about to pile into me. I didn't succeed at that, sadly...

You and Titz seemed to go in fast but end up high, crossing the way of other cars that were scrubbing off speed but staying low. Same happened at T1, you swept underneath me but ended up so far up high that I just took the place back.

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Matthias Weber
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PostSubject: Re: Motor State 500 [Aug 6th]   Mon 7 Aug - 19:38

First thing: Big thanks @HSO for Hosting that event, had a lot of fun out there yesterday, although this race ended way too late  Laughing

Second: IMHO that Mod made a lot of fun. Downloaded the Mod 2 hours before the event and it took 1 hour for me too figure out, why that Pontiac ist so f**kin' slow. (It simply had no SS-Tyres....)
By Switching to the Ford instantly gained two seconds a Lap and managed to Qualify on 8th. Thanks for David and Michal for your setups, i drove my own but used some of your values and had a really stable race setup.

Third: a lot of yellows again. Even for someone like me without much Oval experience some of them shouldn't have happened. Sorry that i also caused one of them, just losing my car into turn 1 without knowing exactly why.

Last: why the hell did i get a penalty at one of the restarts? I lead the field, Safetycar was way ahead and almost at the pit end when i crossed the start finish line?! Game said i accerlerated too early...



The race left me with a yin-yang face expression: Glad to get points for 4th without investing massive amounts of time for training - but sad to miss the podium because of a rfactor ?bug?

See you guys at the next one!

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