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 Round 4 - Grand Prix de Spa [Jul 16th]

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Matthias Weber
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PostSubject: Re: Round 4 - Grand Prix de Spa [Jul 16th]   Mon 17 Jul 2017 - 23:57

Richard Wilks wrote:
Dont worry, i wont make them indestructable, just align them with the rest.


As for the turbo question, i am not sure what you mean. The engine "sensitivity" would need some tweaks to be to my liking, like i did with  the cart88 mod.But i won't be making drastic changes while the season is still underway.

Sorry, but i'm "whining" since the first race. It would be no problem for me, if all the guys on the track have the same brake problems. But seeing the stream from Pascal yesterday (and our own performance with the Lancia on the Nordschleife) just makes me a bit peeved.

The guys on the Porsche 956 could brake very late with 100% for the whole braking zone, every lap.
We braked 100m earlier (i hit the pedal for full force only about half a second) and still had some problems with the brakes again with the rondeau.
I could have driven 2:24 laptimes all the time, but with nursing my brakes i did 2:26/27.
That's ok for me, but its a little bit unsatisfying that the Porsche 956 and Lancia (don't know about the Fords) don't suffer from brake problems.
I spend more time looking at the brake temperatures than looking at the track right on front of me / or looking on some sector times. (Sorry to Gérard again)

On the Nordschleife we could brake like on a actual LMP2 car over 5 hours without having any worries about the brake wear.  :frank:

The thing is: to hear at the stream-livechat, that we just have to lower or brake pressure from 60-70% and it would be no problem any more -  yeah right, but sadly the minimum in the Setup is 75%. And if you drive with that, driving is just ridiculous (if you brake 300m on Kemmel straight, sorry is to late)

And in my opinion it is easy physics: if you brake, you have to reduce kinetic energy.
If you brake 3 Seconds with 66% force, its the same if you brake 2 Seconds with 100% force - the amount of heat energy created is the same. So if you have too much heat, your brake is not dimensioned big enough.

Jan tried to destroy the brakes on the inlap yesterday, realising that with massive 100% braking the brake temperatures even got better, than before  scratch

So, don't get me wrong - if everybody has the same circumstances, it's absolutely no problem for me.
But look at the real results from back then, brake problems haven't been the topic. (We should have more gearbox and engine failures  :jp: )

P.S.:
Don't know what the original constructors of this GTPC mod intended, but a 24 hour race is not possible with that brakes - and i think that's the reason what the mod has been created for?!

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Pascal Mikula
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PostSubject: Re: Round 4 - Grand Prix de Spa [Jul 16th]   Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 0:39

Matthias Weber wrote:

P.S.:
Don't know what the original constructors of this GTPC mod intended, but a 24 hour race is not possible with that brakes - and i think that's the reason what the mod has been created for?!

Well, I don't think the WEC class cars are intended to race for 24 hours; That's what the "24 Hours of Le Mans" class cars are there for. And I think you could expect those to have better brakes as those cars are there specifically for those 24h races.

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Richard Coxon
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PostSubject: Re: Round 4 - Grand Prix de Spa [Jul 16th]   Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 0:39

The Porsche and Lancia as you mentioned have huge amounts of downforce helping them stop too. Much more than anything else. Plus in the real races, brake issues were not a common problem, because they could change brakes, where as we cannot in rFactor. Same with gearbox issues (No way to script damage) and the engines reset themselves after every driver change I believe. These are issues with rFactor unfortunatley and nothing we can correct with physics. We changed the engines to give them realistic engine life's but if they are resetting, you really won't see the failures.

We had to start managing the brakes on the Ford from about half way if I remember correctly. But I was braking earlier than I could from the start, 200m marker on the Kemmel straight.

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David Jundt
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PostSubject: Re: Round 4 - Grand Prix de Spa [Jul 16th]   Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 1:29

@Richard: Okay, right.

Weren't the cars, apart from turbo lag under acceleration, also suffering from the turbo still spinning for a moment when you went off the throttle, thus you had to lift and brake earlier?

I guess the mod doesn't simulate that, unless I am totally wrong with above statement.


Pascal Mikula wrote:

Well, I don't think the WEC class cars are intended to race for 24 hours; That's what the "24 Hours of Le Mans" class cars are there for. And I think you could expect those to have better brakes as those cars are there specifically for those 24h races.

Wat

The only thing you can change to "24 hour system" is the engine upgrade for less power but longer engine life. What's that "24 hour car class" you speak of? scratch

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Yves Plaçais
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PostSubject: Re: Round 4 - Grand Prix de Spa [Jul 16th]   Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 9:20

Conversation très intéressante qui résume bien mon sentiment. :top:

Désolé de ne pas intervenir sur le sujet, mais mon anglais est trop pauvre ! Rolling Eyes

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Richard Coxon
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PostSubject: Re: Round 4 - Grand Prix de Spa [Jul 16th]   Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 9:44

Quote :

Wat

The only thing you can change to "24 hour system" is the engine upgrade for less power but longer engine life. What's that "24 hour car class" you speak of? scratch

I'm the tree menu there is a Le Mans section. The Porsche for example has the long haul config. Not sure if the underneath is any different though bar the engine.

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Matthias Weber
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PostSubject: Re: Round 4 - Grand Prix de Spa [Jul 16th]   Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 14:38

One small hint for Scott (and all other poor guys losing a wheel in the future):

The car/wheel gets repaired in this mod, but you HAVE TO hit the pit spot. If you overshoot it, it's over.
Sometimes you can crawl another lap around the track and try it again, but it's very dangerous for the other drivers.

So remember, approach your pit spot very slowly, because brake pressure is almost zero on three wheels.

Best thing will be, to avoid losing a wheel lol!

Respect to all the guys who finished the race driving alone! :top:

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David Jundt
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PostSubject: Re: Round 4 - Grand Prix de Spa [Jul 16th]   Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 17:52

Erm... Matthias, Jonatan did the same at the Norschleife at it didn't work even on the second try. Maybe he overshot twice, but it seems strange.

@Richard: Oh okay.


But I am not sure if Porsche, Lancia & Co. would build their cars in Le Mans and 1000 km configuration when it comes to the brakes themselves.

Unless they are a bit like the F1 '91 cars and have different brake disc thickness.

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Michael Drechsler
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PostSubject: Re: Round 4 - Grand Prix de Spa [Jul 16th]   Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 19:53

Out of interest, is it possible to have the XML-file of the race?

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Emmanuel Haas
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PostSubject: Re: Round 4 - Grand Prix de Spa [Jul 16th]   Tue 18 Jul 2017 - 21:06

Well … What to say … Very happy to participate at my first race in this competition. Only my second race this year. Difficult to qualify in formula one and 0 km in WEC because I could not take the wheel of the car for Monza and Nurburgring. DNF before my entry on race. It is a very difficult season for me … but this month is better. Thank you Spa-Francorchamps ! First participation in formula one with my Modena-Lamborghini and 9th at the end and now, first place in WEC, GT series. Whhoooo ! I am very very happy ! You can not know how … Congratulation to the two Richard for the victory and thank you to all drivers of this race … Thank you too for the organisation which prepare these races …

This race was very difficult for me, physically. 6 hours of race ! Inhumain. Only 2 races this years and I never drive 6 hours alone during all my poor simracing experience … I thought that 3 hours was the big maximum for me ! I worked a lot of my set-up for the race. More 100 laps I think. I tried to get the car as comfortable as possible … and I thought to be the faster in a race conditions because I could drive in 1’33”xxx / 1’34”xxx then Yves, for exemple, said who would be in 1’35”xxx / 1’36”xxx. After qualification, second time behind the untouchable Yves and before Mick for 0,015 second. I was very afraid for the race start. I was too careful and I lost lot of place … but I found my rhythm and after 5 laps, I began my race … Very difficult to overtake Lewis. Impossible for me. My first gear was very long because I prefer that but it was difficult to restart the car after autobus chicane and la source. I tried an overcut on Lewis at the first stop but I lost about 13 seconds after a mistake trying to overtake him. I went out just behind him at lap 41. Noooooo ! Lap 51, I hit back of Lewis car in the autobus chicane. I tried to put the pressure because I loose time behind him … His car move on the track, he brakes earlier on several zones … and I wanted to pass. Lap 53, in the “S” of campus, I tried to overtake him but I touched right side car. Okay for him but for me, I lost time again … I went back to the attack again and again ! Lap 64, I lost control of my car and direct in sand at Pouhon. Time lost again. Difficult to go out this sand zone. Lap 66, Lewis stopped but difficult this time to overcut him … I am too far … but I tried … I took the leadership of the GT race but in the lap 73, Yves overtook me but in the lap 75, he stopped at the autobus chicane. Yellow flag, I drove slowly. I saw him but when I cut the chicane to avoid him, he moves on me. Whooo ! Very hot ! I managed to avoid contact. I closed my eyes ! First GT again … Lap 80, second stop for me and no overcut again on Lewis. Again behind him … Grrrrrrr ! Yves and Mick, first and second GT … Lap 98, at la source, Mike and Lewis crashed together. I am about 10 seconds behind. Yellow flag, I drove carefully and when I wanted to follow the good trajectory, Lewis, inside the curve, back down ! Nooooooooo ! Impossible ! He blocked me ! I was very disappointed ! Nooo ! I decided to continue to fight ! Go go go ! In the same lap, I overtook Lewis for the second place, just behind Mick. I tried to put him the pressure but carefully behind him. I didn’t want to do the same mistakes I was behind Lewis. Wait and see … Lap 113, Mick stopped and I took the lead of GT race … 2’06” in front of him. Lap 116, I did a mistake at Bruxelles. I am dead physically … Very hard to concentrate on the track … but I tried to continue to fight. I was sure that after my last stop, I would be always the leader of GT race. Lap 119, I stopped and I had 29 seconds before Mick. I decided to lost only one second by lap to win the race but impossible … Even if I am in 1’34”xxx by lap, Mick come back very strong ! I tried to keep the lead but impossible. Lap 128, the last mistake at Blanchimont, in the sand, too difficult, I am too tired … Mick was just behind me now and I didn’t resist. I lost the GT race. Again 6 laps … and I cross the finish line only 2 seconds behind Mick. 2 seconds after 6 hours of race ! A little bit disappointed but still happy. Happy to cross the finish line, happy to finish 2nd. I discover this Mod and I don’t know limit of the car. Brakes were okay, tyres too but motor, I don’t know. I was careful with it …
At final, I win this race because Mick is disqualified to use a qualifying motor but I don’t estimate the gain in performance that he was able to benefit throughout the race. I would have preferred to finish in front of him. There, I would always have a doubt.

I watched all my race with the replay to learn again and to improve my level. I think that each time to be lapped by a Group C car it was okay … perhaps sometimes a little bit too long but always clean … If it was not the case for certain, very sorry … I tried to do my best …

Next race, Mugello, and if I can, I will try Ferrari car but for the moment, goal is to qualify the Modena for the next F1 round at Monza … I hope to be on the grid … I hope …

Thanks again … and sorry for my English …

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Michal Janak
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PostSubject: Re: Round 4 - Grand Prix de Spa [Jul 16th]   Sun 23 Jul 2017 - 10:41

The race was big surprise for me, especialy after pre race tests, where i was not able to finish more than 3 laps in one stint, usualy lost the car on fast left corner at end of the lap (rear end faster then front), or on brakes before T1 where car turned to left and hit wall, After start i hold some cars (i think one blue BMW and one Lancia) behind me and i was little faster in some sections, after few laps they looked like they can be faster than me, so i decided let them by and so they was faster, i lost contact wit them and tempo too after first cars lapped me. I was comfortable and the car was more friendlier tha in tests, so did lap after lap, up to point when after 5hrs left front brake went off, after pits i went off twice and was thinking about give up but i try go slower and keep car on track. I went to deep sand once and only with luck did not kill the engine which was werry hot and smoked too , when 2nd front brake went off it was much better in behavior (symetrical ), finaly wery happy that i finish another 6h race alone

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