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 [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.

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Gabriele Maruca
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PostSubject: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Tue 21 Mar 2017 - 0:16

Hi guys, Gabriele here.

It has been a lot of time since the 1965 mod, hasn't it? Well, now we're back with a new project: we're bringing back the first Formula One World Constructors' Championship, the 1958 season.

I can presume that one of the questions you might have is about why bring back this season in particular: well, 1955 is already taken by Luigi70 (whom I have the honour to work with on that project) and I didn't feel quite prepared yet with my modelling skills to tackle on the very first years of existence of Fomula One. I didn't want to tackle the '60s yet (especially 1967 and 1961... those demand extreme respect, IMHO), so I thought... "why not the late '50s?" 1957 would have been too similar to 1955 with the difference of a Maserati stranglehold, 1959 would have missed the "engine revolution". So 1958 it was, with the mixture of fully independent suspensions and dead axles, front and rear engines, small and large tires... it seemed a right call to test my modelling and physics skills on. I've asked the help of Oscar "Ozpata" Plada and of François "Flying Dutchman" Remmen, but only the first was available, since the latter was in... more modern times in HSO (no hard feelings, mate! Wink I wish you the best in '91! Smile ).

So, we began this journey almost one year ago: I've took some courses in modeling along with my Engineering classes to improve the quality of the mods, with Oscar testing the bunch. At one point, I've remodeled the same car 5 times over, because I didn't like some details or those were just plain wrong  :doh: : such examples might be the Ferrari 246 and the Vanwall VW5, which are really difficult to get right if you base the modeling on the blueprints only. It's way better to use the Stanford Uni's REVS service for those  study .
So, I hope to release everything before the end of the year, since we have almost everything ready, but it's more a wish than a deadline, really. As we all know, testing is the longest and most time-consuming part.

At this point, you might have noticed I've spoken only of François and Oscar as teammates, but not of Francesco and Donnie. Well, problem is, we ended like Simbin in a sense, at the end of the second version of the '65 mod: Donnie and Francesco were okay with the mod, the rest of us wasn't because we felt there was so much more we could do, and we decided to go on our merry ways. We still have friendly relationships, but Donnie has completely retired from modding in rF because of the "gimme gimme" attitude some users display and Francesco moved on to Edurance and GT3.
So the only CROMS remained were Oscar, François and me: we decided to rename the group as "O.R.M." and go on with our classic projects: our love for simracing is stronger than splits Wink

So, enough with the talking: let's make the screens talk Wink
Have a great night, everyone Smile



Vaillante Mystére gallery

Lotsa screens here: beware!:
 
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Frank Verplanken
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PostSubject: Re: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Tue 21 Mar 2017 - 1:48

Hi Gabriele Smile Thanks for the heads up on this project :top:

Great choice on the 1958 GP season, it had a great field and an awesome schedule so I'm looking forward to having a full season of that one day at HSO !

That Dino looks great in the video, and the screenshots are very promising as well :top:

Just a little historical precision : this was not the first "Formula One World Constructors' Championship" but the first edition of the "CSI World Championship of Manufacturers", a name it carried in 1958 and 1959 only. It then became the "CSI International Cup for F1 Manufacturers" (1960-78), then the "FIA International Cup for F1 Manufacturers" (1979-80) and finally the "FIA Formula 1 World Championship of Manufacturers" (1981 to this day) Wink.

Anyways, bon courage in your endeavour :hello:

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Daniel Castevert
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PostSubject: Re: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Tue 21 Mar 2017 - 20:28

Excellent projet , merci cheers
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PostSubject: Re: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Mon 10 Apr 2017 - 18:29

Frank Verplanken wrote:

Just a little historical precision : this was not the first "Formula One World Constructors' Championship" but the first edition of the "CSI World Championship of Manufacturers", a name it carried in 1958 and 1959 only. It then became the "CSI International Cup for F1 Manufacturers" (1960-78), then the "FIA International Cup for F1 Manufacturers" (1979-80) and finally the "FIA Formula 1 World Championship of Manufacturers" (1981 to this day) Wink.

Well, that's something Wikipedia got horrendously wrong then: thanks for checking it and correcting me. I'll put it right away in the RFM file and the BMP files needing a check Smile

Frank Verplanken wrote:

Great choice on the 1958 GP season, it had a great field and an awesome schedule so I'm looking forward to having a full season of that one day at HSO !

That Dino looks great in the video, and the screenshots are very promising as well :top:

Thanks man! I hope that HSO appreciates it like you and Daniel did: I know it's just a couple of pics and a video, but I'll try to give you guys more and more info and previews as time goes on and fixes are made. For example, I've remade the Vanwall for the umpteenth time, this time using the era's photos. I think that this time it's pretty much final Smile

I've made a Google Photo Album, since the photos are really big and I don't want to clutter the page too much with huge photos Smile

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO6DhxZR5P88Vp_FMDQlOFSb_XARLc5bMnKwf_K-_qlfQ4DHNSvOGdD7qv8-x8ONw?hl=it&key=czkwVUZTU3lWTWlacjBaWmJlSGlvb21GcEFEdmxn

Also... anyone here has some experience with graphic plug-ins for rFactor? There was an idea I wanted to develop (but I'm honestly crap at coding, sadly), to have a pitboard popping up at the S/F line like in GPL/GTR2. In this way the mod can have a lot of authenticity, since the driver will have to rely on the instruments and the pitboard. Any help or advice is greatly appreciated Smile
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PostSubject: Re: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Mon 10 Apr 2017 - 19:33

Gabriele Maruca wrote:
Well, that's something Wikipedia got horrendously wrong then: thanks for checking it and correcting me. I'll put it right away in the RFM file and the BMP files needing a check Smile

Wikipedia always gets it wrong, it's generally a very bad source for motor racing Wink. If you want you could send me your VEH files and I could double check if there are no mistakes or typos in there. I have a pretty decent database of results and car specs, hundreds of books and thousannds of mags as well, I could dig in there if you need anything Wink.

Gabriele Maruca wrote:
Thanks man! I hope that HSO appreciates it like you and Daniel did: I know it's just a couple of pics and a video, but I'll try to give you guys more and more info and previews as time goes on and fixes are made. For example, I've remade the Vanwall for the umpteenth time, this time using the era's photos. I think that this time it's pretty much final Smile

The Vanwall looks very good :top: !

Gabriele Maruca wrote:
Also... anyone here has some experience with graphic plug-ins for rFactor? There was an idea I wanted to develop (but I'm honestly crap at coding, sadly), to have a pitboard popping up at the S/F line like in GPL/GTR2. In this way the mod can have a lot of authenticity, since the driver will have to rely on the instruments and the pitboard. Any help or advice is greatly appreciated Smile

That is a very good idea indeed, coming from GPL myself that's one of the things I've always missed in rFactor. Can't help you there though as I cannot code for shit Laughing :smil20: !

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Jacob Fredriksson
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PostSubject: Re: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Mon 10 Apr 2017 - 19:40

Looks like a terrific project. I know I wouldn't turn down Frank's help! Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Mon 10 Apr 2017 - 20:07

Good luck with the project, looks good so far :top:
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PostSubject: Re: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Mon 10 Apr 2017 - 20:20

Frank Verplanken wrote:

Wikipedia always gets it wrong, it's generally a very bad source for motor racing Wink. If you want you could send me your VEH files and I could double check if there are no mistakes or typos in there. I have a pretty decent database of results and car specs, hundreds of books and thousannds of mags as well, I could dig in there if you need anything Wink.

Thanks for the help, but don't worry, I think I got it covered: I didn't use Wiki other than the GP schedule and the number of laps, all of the other stuff came from these places:

-TuttoFerrari by Leonardo Acerbi, Mondadori;
-Grand Prix Cars 1945-65 by Mike Lawrence, MRP;
-Vanwall 2.5 Litre F1 by Ian Bamsey, Haynes;
-BRM - The saga of British Racing Motors Volume I - by Doug Nye and Tony Rudd, MRP;
-Forghieri On Ferrari, Mauro Forghieri and Daniele Buzzonetti, Giunti;
-Maserati 250F in focus by Anthony Pritchard, Veloce Publishing;
-Cooper Cars (World champions) by Doug Nye, Motorbooks;
-Coventry Climax Racing Engines by Des Hammill, Veloce Publishing;
-http://www.grandprixengines.co.uk/
-http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/

But obviously, if you have more info, you're most welcome Smile

Frank Verplanken wrote:

The Vanwall looks very good :top: !

That is a very good idea indeed, coming from GPL myself that's one of the things I've always missed in rFactor. Can't help you there though as I cannot code for shit Laughing :smil20: !

Ah, a fellow GPLer! :D
Well, that's something I really missed in rFactor (along a proper AI and gearbox, but there's Grinding Tranny for the latter: too bad it's really confusionary in a per-mod application) and the various tv-styles are not cutting it for me. The only one which may have some potential to do that could be the RFDYNHUD by CTDP but too bad it relies an a pre-historic version of Java which no longer works no matter how hard you try.

Also... I suppose nobody is going to complain if I put this here, oui? Laughing

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP4SWhMt3oJq73zyQoisjwCvgopbR1XgQylNl7-O0lSXAheP9WvPRotYAvhZNikBA?hl=it&key=QlNIamswajRRdjBwVmY2YVVhT3k2N3pGSGxyWjZ3
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PostSubject: Re: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Mon 10 Apr 2017 - 21:22

Ah yes you have some good reference books to work from, that's nice :top:

And yes the Vaillante Mystère is gorgeous <3 !

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PostSubject: Re: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Mon 10 Apr 2017 - 22:48

Frank Verplanken wrote:
Ah yes you have some good reference books to work from, that's nice :top:

And yes the Vaillante Mystère is gorgeous <3 !

As I've told you before, you're always welcome with better info! Wink

For now I'm trying to improve all the graphics: the rims on most other cars have to be improved, the Connaught Dart isn't really cutting it for me, plus there are some other minor quirks to fix graphically to make them up-to-"CART88"standard.
Yes, I'm using that mod as standard: it made me see that I needed to make that extra mile graphically and physically as a group. I really have to thanks this forum for that Smile

After that... a limited test on this forum is what I'd love to see, if you guys are okay with that. I'm also writing a manual to complement the mod, to use as assistance Smile


A little side-note:
I'm glad you like it! I've also sent some photos to Monsieur Graton... he liked the first version, and he sent me an e-mail telling me that the best version to replicate is the Beneteau's one, as shown in "Collapsus". So I've sent these new photos and both Gratons and the Italian Fan Club loved them :D
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PostSubject: Re: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Fri 14 Apr 2017 - 1:51

I think 58 was a great choice Gabriele.

To be honest those earlier seasons mods feel strange to me outside of GPL, it is great that is being made by people that really care about the history. I too hope that it can be used at HSO, that certainly would take me out from online racing retirement. Maybe GPLBrasil can have a rFactor branch Smile

I have a book (La Formule 1 Moderne from Jose Rosinski) that has some historical and technical info about the 58 season, if you want.

Best luck with your work
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PostSubject: Re: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Mon 17 Apr 2017 - 21:27

Andre Cunha wrote:
I think 58 was a great choice Gabriele.

To be honest those earlier seasons mods feel strange to me outside of GPL, it is great that is being made by people that really care about the history. I too hope that it can be used at HSO, that certainly would take me out from online racing retirement. Maybe GPLBrasil can have a rFactor branch Smile

I have a book (La Formule 1 Moderne from Jose Rosinski) that has some historical and technical info about the 58 season, if you want.

Best luck with your work

Thanks Andre, I'll be sure to call you for any additional info Smile
W-W-wait a second... you said GPL Brasil? I used to race in there in the same division as Raoni, Daon and Pereira back when we raced the '65 ^^;

And yeah, as a group we started modeling and racing these cars because of one thing: we were tired as hell of the umpteenth "ZOMG 20XX F1 ZEAZON!!!" mod, featuring most of the time really dodgy physics and debatable-origin 3D models (obviously not all, but sadly the main picture sure is that bleak) and wanted to make something that at least could be a hommage to the athmosphere and physics GPL gave us. Nothing more, nothing less Smile

Alright, time for some new pictures: this time, we present you the BRM P25 in its 1958 form, with completely redone rims because the ones I've fitted before were bowling-shoe ugly. I hope you guys will like it Smile

https://goo.gl/photos/tJxxycrqb2FvQsKZ7
https://goo.gl/photos/d8eUuJu7uxAWhd937
https://goo.gl/photos/qqoQiQd2wX7nP9Fq6
https://goo.gl/photos/T5nt8kbnDXUFkvow5
https://goo.gl/photos/NczwNyUqDZiEeGpL8

Also... if I'm not asking too much, could someone in the audience give me some decent side photos of the Maserati 250F T2 for the 1958 season (and, if possible, the T3 "Piccolo")? I'm having too many discordant photos here and it's getting really out of hand when modelling :/

Thanks for any help you guys can give us Smile
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PostSubject: Re: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Mon 17 Apr 2017 - 21:46

I had somehow missed you previous post Gabriele, sorry.

Gabriele Maruca wrote:
plus there are some other minor quirks to fix graphically to make them up-to-"CART88"standard. Yes, I'm using that mod as standard: it made me see that I needed to make that extra mile graphically and physically as a group. I really have to thanks this forum for that Smile

Thanks for your kind words, it is always appreciated to have our work recognized, particularly by someone involved in such a classy project  :top: ! Our 3D modders are very talented indeed and amazingly efficient too, it's a great source of pride and honor for us to have them as part of the team. Also is a perpetual source of amazement for me to witness their work progress day by day as I could not mod a cube in 3D to save my life ^^ !

Gabriele Maruca wrote:
After that... a limited test on this forum is what I'd love to see, if you guys are okay with that. I'm also writing a manual to complement the mod, to use as assistance Smile

I'm sure we'll be able to put something together yes, no problem Smile.

Gabriele Maruca wrote:
A little side-note:
I'm glad you like it! I've also sent some photos to Monsieur Graton... he liked the first version, and he sent me an e-mail telling me that the best version to replicate is the Beneteau's one, as shown in "Collapsus". So I've sent these new photos and both Gratons and the Italian Fan Club loved them :D

That is very cool :top:

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PostSubject: Re: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Mon 17 Apr 2017 - 22:53

Gabriele Maruca wrote:
wanted to make something that at least could be a hommage to the athmosphere and physics GPL gave us. Nothing more, nothing less Smile

Very Happy

P25 looking good Smile. The tires do look a bit squarrish on the edge though, is that definitive ?

I'll see what I can do for the Piccolo, no promises though - I don't have much of my archives around these days :smil20:

Any chance of a "Monzanapolis" Race of Two Worlds add-on :hihi: Wink ?


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PostSubject: Re: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Tue 18 Apr 2017 - 0:26

Frank Verplanken wrote:
Gabriele Maruca wrote:
wanted to make something that at least could be a hommage to the athmosphere and physics GPL gave us. Nothing more, nothing less Smile

 Very Happy

P25 looking good Smile. The tires do look a bit squarrish on the edge though, is that definitive ?

I'll see what I can do for the Piccolo, no promises though - I don't have much of my archives around these days  :smil20:

Any chance of a "Monzanapolis" Race of Two Worlds add-on  :hihi: Wink ?


Yeah, sadly it is: rF is quite picky on tires, if you go over 3'000 tris (rims included) the gMotor2 engine goes apeshit ^^;

"Monzanapolis".
So I take that a certain someone knows about this... thing, right? The Ferrari 412 MI, basically a big-arsed Supersqualo Wink

http://i43.tinypic.com/5dp20o.jpg
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PostSubject: Re: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Tue 18 Apr 2017 - 0:39

Gabriele Maruca wrote:
Yeah, sadly it is: rF is quite picky on tires, if you go over 3'000 tris (rims included) the gMotor2 engine goes apeshit ^^;

Ah yes I see, well I'm not too picky myself you know and will race them gladly even if the tyres were square :D (the physics have to kick ass though :D !)

Gabriele Maruca wrote:
"Monzanapolis".
So I take that a certain someone knows about this... thing, right? The Ferrari 412 MI, basically a big-arsed Supersqualo Wink

http://i43.tinypic.com/5dp20o.jpg

Hehe yes and also the Eldorado Spl. Maserati T420 <3 !



That would be a fabulous event to organise here at HSO :hihi: !

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PostSubject: Re: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Wed 19 Apr 2017 - 12:42

Frank Verplanken wrote:


Hehe yes and also the Eldorado Spl. Maserati T420 <3

That would be a fabulous event to organise here at HSO :hihi: !

That would be awesome, mate! But let's do a thing at a time, or it will be a mess ^^;
On a side one, I had the pleasure to see that same car on my multiple trips to Modena and Maranello... it is as bloated as it looks lol!
Also, I had the sheer luck to be really up-close Fangio's Mercedes W196S and Maserati 250F in that same Ferrari museum in Modena: I don't want to pass on as a "retro-w*nker", but... it really changed my view on past engineering. Seeing that perfectly modelled Itallumag body riveted on those alluminium tubes in real life and up close is really something that you can't describe without losing something while describing it. You really start thinking that surely those were dangerous as all hell, but have a charme and beauty that simply you can't find in modern cars in the same quantity and quality.
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PostSubject: Re: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Wed 19 Apr 2017 - 17:45

Frank can you make some contacts in the gpl scene for some tracks to convert to rf1
as you know im occupied with 91 and my work dont give me the free time to explore all this

i know gabriele want the spa 67 , as i think we all want and make it in targa florio quality
which is a hell of a task but im prepared to do that with some help with the great guys like jason , david and maybe alberto if he want to join in

for example riverside 66 ( which i realy like to have as a replacement for the 65 trackpack i made) or some decent 50s tracks they used in 58 would be nice

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PostSubject: Re: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Wed 19 Apr 2017 - 18:29

François Remmen wrote:
Frank can you make some contacts in the gpl scene for some tracks to convert to rf1
as you know im occupied with 91 and my work dont give me the free time to explore all this

i know gabriele want the spa 67 , as i think we all want and make it in targa florio quality
which is a hell of a task  but im prepared to do that with some help with the great guys like jason , david and maybe alberto if he want to join in

for example riverside 66  ( which i realy like to have as a replacement for the 65 trackpack i made) or some decent 50s tracks they used in 58 would be nice

Well François, to be completely blunt we have almost every track from 1958, but some notable tracks are missing:

- Autodromo Oscar y Juan Galvez (former Autódromo Municipal Ciudad de Buenos Aires), layout n°2;
- Circuit de Spa Francorchamps, new "1967" GPL version, which can be reworked into a 1958 version;
- Ain Diab Circuit, as available in GPL (because the rF one really is bleak as it can be...);
- Circuito di Siracusa, because it was home of an NC race;
- Circuit de Caen (same reason).

Also, some tracks would need a slight "era-correct" rework:

- Oporto: available in rF, but it needs some fixes with track textures popping all over the place and the AIW being not really the best one in the shed;
- Monaco: in 1958 (as it has been the case since 1955 up until 1963) the start/finish line was the exact middle of the staight between Tabac and Gazometre. This means the pitlane, the boxes and the whole AIW have to also be redone.

Looking at it... the track-side of the affair is looking daunting, at the very least ^^;
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PostSubject: Re: [WORK IN PROGRESS] ORM F1 1958 - rF1 - The Workthread.   Sun 23 Jul 2017 - 23:03

[Crackling radio sound] "After the long radio silence, we come back with the Grand Prix de France, at Reims: there's an all-tricolor battle between Jean Behra with his BRM against the Paris-born Michel Vaillant on his Vaillante, battling for 4th. For sure one of them will give Moss (1st), Musso (2nd) and Hawthorn (3rd) their fair share later!"

Huge photos ahead!:
 
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