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 1973 USAC National Championship - History

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Ludovic Tiengou
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Mon 27 Jun 2016 - 14:00

Alberto Ibaņez wrote:


Or you would have missed the race, depens on what you use as reference, the car or driver  Laughing


none of them. I'm unique :D :D :D :D :D

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Bob Holada
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Fri 8 Jul 2016 - 19:56

Can you imagine taking your turbo beast to a road course.(I know a few of you have tried)   In reality it did happen.  In 1974-1976 USAC and SCCA merged for the SCCA F5000 series.  As far as I know, any current ChampCar could have been raced with the F5000 gang.  I remember this because I saw it happen.   1974 Road America F5000 had three Champ Cars in the field.  Some of the details I’ve picked up from the internet, my memory isn’t that good. John Martin in a McLaren 16B/offy,  Tom Sneva in a 73 kingfish/Offy and Dick Simon in an 72 eagle/Ford-Foyt.  What I do remember was that these cars looked very out of place.  The drivers were completely out of the gas through the corners and when they did get back on the gas the cars would sputter and sound very poorly.  The internet shows that Simon didn’t start, Sneva lasted one lap and Martin lasted nine laps. Also this may have been the only race where there were documented USAC entries.    The next time HSO does a F5000 series I think the 73USAC cars should be eligible. geek

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Dana Schurer
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Fri 8 Jul 2016 - 20:14

Interesting! I didn't know Offys ran in F5000 more than once. Stats from that race here. The only other reported instance with more than one USAC car in a field was when Lloyd Ruby and Billy Scott brought Eagle/Offys to the 1974 Ontario round and also didn't get much out of the experience.

Bobby Unser's participation in the 1974 Riverside Grand Prix was the only one I knew of before today and, other than a second place in qualifying, the only positive result was some good pictures.


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David Sabre
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Fri 8 Jul 2016 - 20:28

There's a bit here in this road america book.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=GKppBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA71&lpg=PA71&dq=formula+5000+kingfish&source=bl&ots=8NwCr-TCiT&sig=be2zEG-eKCO8tGFiZ-nKYh4b3co&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiUjM2pzOTNAhXJIsAKHfIcBuwQ6AEIVjAL#v=onepage&q=formula%205000%20kingfish&f=false
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Jason Fitch
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Sat 9 Jul 2016 - 3:23

While we're on the subject of Odd Couples racing let's take a look at the oddest couple....

Ladies and Gentlemen, the 1981 Van Scoy diamond Mines 500 from Pocono



I'll post the story when I don't have a certain 8 year old breathing over my shoulder distracting me!

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"On the first day at St. Jovite, I was following Paul Hawkins up the back straight...and Paul Hawkins car took off, his Lola T70. It went upside down and when it landed it did 360's down the road, and Hawkins was upside down and trapped in the thing...So I stopped and a bunch of us got to the car...and we hoisted it up and got it back on it's wheels and he got out of it. He looked back and where he'd taken off, it was way back, 150 yards or more. He looked at the car and he looked way back and he looked at the car and then he said "F@%k"...and that was the story of the Can-Am" -Sam Posey
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Sky Willis
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Sat 9 Jul 2016 - 9:33

i was in a sort of recreation of that on iracing a while ago. we used their weird boxy silver crown that didn't get used for long in real life and the lotus 79. there wasn't many of us, but it was a pretty fun combination. maybe not for real life i don't know. pretty scary having lotuses passing you around the outside in every turn Laughing
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Jason Fitch
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Sat 9 Jul 2016 - 10:25


Alright the 1981 Van Scoy Diamond Mines 500.

In 1981 IndyCar was still reeling from it's first "Split" in 1979 that saw the formation of CART.

In 1980 USAC and CART agreed to Co-Sanction the races, however USAC pulled out after that seasons Mid-Ohio Race. For the 1981 season, USAC envisioned a series like the old days to be run on Dirt and Pavement, that began and ended at the Indy 500. Thus the Gold Crown was born, a 6 race championship held on paved and dirt tracks. However they ran into a snag after the 1981 Indy 500. The next race for both USAC and CART was June 21. USAC at Pocono and CART at Atlanta. CART forbade it's teams from competing at the Pocono race. So USAC was looking at a very small field of cars, so to add numbers they invited the Silver Crown cars to run. This produced some interesting sites, such as Silver Crown cars passing IndyCars in the turns only to be driven by like they were standing still on the straights. There was also some interesting rules adaptations. Silver Crown drivers were required to shut their cars off and get out of them during pit stops that involved refueling, leading to some crazyness on pit road with push trucks getting the Silver Crown cars back out on track.

In all 29 drivers took the Green, 21 Indy and 8 Silver Crown cars competing. The race Red Flagged and called after 122 laps due to rain with A.J. Foyt taking the win. This would be his Last IndyCar win as a driver.


BTW: for those wondering, when the race was called at Lap 122, the highest placed Silver Crown car was Mark Alderson in 11th. He was 18 laps down.

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"On the first day at St. Jovite, I was following Paul Hawkins up the back straight...and Paul Hawkins car took off, his Lola T70. It went upside down and when it landed it did 360's down the road, and Hawkins was upside down and trapped in the thing...So I stopped and a bunch of us got to the car...and we hoisted it up and got it back on it's wheels and he got out of it. He looked back and where he'd taken off, it was way back, 150 yards or more. He looked at the car and he looked way back and he looked at the car and then he said "F@%k"...and that was the story of the Can-Am" -Sam Posey
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Alberto Ibaņez
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Mon 11 Jul 2016 - 11:10

Dana Schurer wrote:
Interesting! I didn't know Offys ran in F5000 more than once. Stats from that race here. The only other reported instance with more than one USAC car in a field was when Lloyd Ruby and Billy Scott brought Eagle/Offys to the 1974 Ontario round and also didn't get much out of the experience.

Bobby Unser's participation in the 1974 Riverside Grand Prix was the only one I knew of before today and, other than a second place in qualifying, the only positive result was some good pictures.

The USAC cars were oval racers, but there was nothing in their design limiting them to that kind of track (Asymmetrical suspension or the like, and 74 onwards they still had room in the sidepods  for a second fuel tank on the right). Some attempts of using them at road tracks were made, as you point out, but their engine with huge turbo lag was suited mostly for open, fast ones. At Riverside Bobby had tecnical problems, but when the car worked he basically destroyed the F5000s (According to Philippe DeLespinay, who was present that day) in the straights and went much quicker overall. At Laguna Seca or Lime Rock I doubt much that would have been the case.

In any case, Gurney was so sure his car matched the F1 of the time, he even put his money where his mouth was. The challenge sadly never happened.

http://allamericanracers.com/challenge-to-a-duel-f1-vs-indy/


We have periodically toyed with the idea of recreating it for rFactor, and also enabling the USAC cars to be driven in HSO's F5000 mod for the Elkhart Lake race you pointed out, but so far we haven't had enough time for that. Maybe later it will happen, I also would like to know what could happen :D

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Jason White
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Tue 12 Jul 2016 - 20:44

1973 Kingfish history

http://www.oldracingcars.com/kingfish/73/

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Jacob Fredriksson
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Tue 12 Jul 2016 - 21:51

Amazing longevity for those cars! Can't believe it was any competitive in 1983 though. Smile

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Jason Fitch
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Wed 13 Jul 2016 - 3:05


Anyone have $145,000 in spare change laying around??

http://race-cars.com/carsales/other/1431116513/1431116513ss.htm

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"On the first day at St. Jovite, I was following Paul Hawkins up the back straight...and Paul Hawkins car took off, his Lola T70. It went upside down and when it landed it did 360's down the road, and Hawkins was upside down and trapped in the thing...So I stopped and a bunch of us got to the car...and we hoisted it up and got it back on it's wheels and he got out of it. He looked back and where he'd taken off, it was way back, 150 yards or more. He looked at the car and he looked way back and he looked at the car and then he said "F@%k"...and that was the story of the Can-Am" -Sam Posey
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Sky Willis
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Wed 13 Jul 2016 - 9:07

that car has been on there for quite a while
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Ludovic Tiengou
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Wed 13 Jul 2016 - 10:15

Jason Fitch wrote:

Anyone have $145,000 in spare change laying around??

http://race-cars.com/carsales/other/1431116513/1431116513ss.htm

Had I that kind of money I'll buy another car to do some race. Ovals are quite rare in Europe lol!

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Jason Fitch
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Wed 13 Jul 2016 - 16:54

Sky Willis wrote:
that car has been on there for quite a while

and some of the info in the listing is wrong as well.

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"On the first day at St. Jovite, I was following Paul Hawkins up the back straight...and Paul Hawkins car took off, his Lola T70. It went upside down and when it landed it did 360's down the road, and Hawkins was upside down and trapped in the thing...So I stopped and a bunch of us got to the car...and we hoisted it up and got it back on it's wheels and he got out of it. He looked back and where he'd taken off, it was way back, 150 yards or more. He looked at the car and he looked way back and he looked at the car and then he said "F@%k"...and that was the story of the Can-Am" -Sam Posey
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Jason White
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Wed 28 Sep 2016 - 19:38

Photos from Ontario, 1973


Wally Dallenbach


Johnny Rutherford


Mario Andretti
  



Peter Revson


  

John Mahler


Mario Andretti and Al Unser

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Jason White
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Wed 28 Sep 2016 - 19:56

Full radio broadcast of the 1973 California 500

http://www.mrn.com/Media-Center/Video.aspx?id=86d61688-34d6-4e4e-8663-637a7b23300a

Race starts at 12 minutes, 20 seconds

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Scott Urick
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Fri 30 Sep 2016 - 6:01

Jason White wrote:
Photos from Ontario, 1973


Scott and Alberto

Fixed.
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Jason White
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Mon 10 Oct 2016 - 14:10

Mario looks like Elvis in this pic  Cool

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Alberto Ibaņez
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Mon 10 Oct 2016 - 14:42

And big Al looks as if not having been able to go to the WC in a week pig

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Michael Drechsler
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Mon 10 Oct 2016 - 18:52

Jason White wrote:
Mario looks like Elvis in this pic  Cool

Mario's always been the coolest looking dude in the paddock. Ever. Period. Cool
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Richard Coxon
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Mon 10 Oct 2016 - 19:22

Michael Drechsler wrote:
Jason White wrote:
Mario looks like Elvis in this pic  Cool

Mario's always been the coolest looking dude in the paddock. Ever. Period. Cool

Steve McQueen may challenge that Razz

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Jason White
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Mon 10 Oct 2016 - 19:27

Richard Coxon wrote:
Michael Drechsler wrote:
Jason White wrote:
Mario looks like Elvis in this pic  Cool

Mario's always been the coolest looking dude in the paddock. Ever. Period. Cool

Steve McQueen may challenge that Razz

Or Revson

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Richard Coxon
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Mon 10 Oct 2016 - 19:52

Jason White wrote:
Richard Coxon wrote:
Michael Drechsler wrote:
Jason White wrote:
Mario looks like Elvis in this pic  Cool

Mario's always been the coolest looking dude in the paddock. Ever. Period. Cool

Steve McQueen may challenge that Razz

Or Revson

Good shout, I haven't seen a much cooler pic than when he is wrestling Sam "You're Wrong" Posey to the floor. Laughing

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Scott Urick
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Tue 11 Oct 2016 - 5:21

Jason White wrote:
Richard Coxon wrote:
Michael Drechsler wrote:
Jason White wrote:
Mario looks like Elvis in this pic  Cool

Mario's always been the coolest looking dude in the paddock. Ever. Period. Cool

Steve McQueen may challenge that Razz

Or Revson

We have a winner. :hello:
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Jason Fitch
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PostSubject: Re: 1973 USAC National Championship - History   Tue 11 Oct 2016 - 21:36


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"On the first day at St. Jovite, I was following Paul Hawkins up the back straight...and Paul Hawkins car took off, his Lola T70. It went upside down and when it landed it did 360's down the road, and Hawkins was upside down and trapped in the thing...So I stopped and a bunch of us got to the car...and we hoisted it up and got it back on it's wheels and he got out of it. He looked back and where he'd taken off, it was way back, 150 yards or more. He looked at the car and he looked way back and he looked at the car and then he said "F@%k"...and that was the story of the Can-Am" -Sam Posey
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